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Source:

Page 301 of White Noise

Keywords:

"because," "desert," "happens," "times"

From: "SteveF" <stevefry@dslextreme.com>
Subject: *** rec.gambling.misc FAQ ***
Date: 3 Apr 2009
Newsgroups: rec.gambling.misc

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions about Gambling

This is the rec.gambling.misc Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list.
It should be viewed with a FIXED WIDTH font (such as Courier) in order to
appreciate the diagrams and graphs.

Changes or additions to this FAQ should be submitted to:
stevefry@dslextreme.com

Page last modified: 9-3-95
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table of Contents

Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling.*
     W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
     W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling.*?

Section I: Information Sources
     I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ list?
     I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
     I3 Where is the gambling archive?
     I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
     I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
     I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?

Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
     H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
     H2 What is WRGPT?
     H3 What is BARGE?
     H4 What is IRC Poker?

Section S: Spare us!
     S1 Martingale betting systems -- just double your bet until you win
     S2 The Inevitable Monty Hall
     S3 How much would you pay to play this game?

Section G: General Gambling Topics
     G1 What casino game has the best odds?
     G2 What are comps?
     G3 How do you get comps?
     G4 What is the Casino Host Department?
     G5 What comps are available?
     G6 How do I get a casino credit line?
     G7 How are "markers" used?
     G8 A walk through on getting comps.
     G9 Where can I get casino quality chips?
     G10 Are chip colors standardized?
     G11 What are matchplay chips
     G12 What are "pit critters"?

Section L: Location of Casinos
     L1 What are the phone numbers for hotels/casinos in Las Vegas?
     L2 Where is my favorite Las Vegas casino? (MAP)
     L3 What are some cheap places to stay in Vegas?
     L4 What are some good places to play/stay in Reno?
     L5 Where is Elko Nevada?
     L6 Where is Foxwoods?
     L7 Where is Turning Stone?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling.*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
A:W1 (Steve Jacobs)

Rec.gambling was originally a single newsgroup, but has now been split into
several different groups in order to allow readers to more easily focus their
attention on specific topics. Although rec.gambling has been superceded by
these new groups, it is likely that the term "rec.gambling" will live on to
refer to these groups as a whole, especially in connection with such activities
as WRGPT and BARGE. These newsgroups are devoted to discussion of all forms of
gambling and wagering, and the gaming industry. If you are new to rec.gambling,
or you have not read this message previously, please take a few moments to read
this message, since it may help you to find many different sources of
information on gambling.

The purposes of this message are:

   * To provide guidelines for posting to rec.gambling.*

   * To help you find the latest versions of the rec.gambling.* Frequently
     Asked Questions (FAQ) lists, which should be read before posting questions
     to rec.gambling.* newsgroups.

   * To help you find other sources of information about gambling, such as the
     rec.gambling archive and the World Wide Web home page for rec.gambling.

   * To provide some of the history of rec.gambling, and the various events
     associated with the newsgroups, including:

        o WRGPT (World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament)
        o BARGE (Big Annual Rec.Gambling Excursion)
        o IRC Poker (online poker games against live opponents)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling.*?
A:W2 (Steve Jacobs)

If you have not already done so, we would strongly urge all readers of
rec.gambling.* (especially those who are new to USENET) to review the material
in the group news.announce.newusers. Although this group is primarily intended
for new users, it would be a good idea for anyone who posts messages to USENET
newsgroups to review this material periodically. Guidelines which generally
apply to USENET newsgroups will also apply to rec.gambling.*.

Use appropriate subject lines in order to target your message to those who are
most interested. Whenever practical, try to include one of the following
keywords (or something similar) in the "Subject:" line in order to make it
easier for readers who are only interested in one or two topics:

    POKER    BLACKJACK    VIDEO POKER    CRAPS    ROULETTE
    SLOTS    LOTTERY      RACES          PONIES   DRIVEL

A few points of netiquette to keep in mind before posting to rec.gambling.*:

   *  Before posting, consider whether your post will be of general interest to
     the group. If your message is primarily targeted to one or two
     individuals, then use email instead.

   *  Appropriate topics for these groups: Gambling and wagering in all forms.
     Although the groups tend to focus heavily on games which permit the player
     to gain an advantage over the house, many games which are "unbeatable" are
     discussed here as well. Trip reports from recent visits to casinos are
     also welcome, and enjoyed by many readers (especially those who are unable
     to get to the casinos as often as they might like). Discussions often
     include some heavy mathematical analysis as it relates to gambling
     (especially combinatorics, probability/statistics, and game theory), and
     results of computer analysis and/or simulation of specific games.

   *  Try to stay on topic as much as possible. If the discussion strays to
     non-gambling topics, please consider moving the topic to a more
     appropriate forum or to email. An occasional stray discussion is OK, just
     don't get carried away.

   *  Before posting, check the FAQ to see if your question is already answered
     there. If you are unwilling (or too lazy) to check the FAQ first, then
     don't be surprised if the only answer you receive is "see the FAQ".

   *  It is a good idea to read the entire FAQ at least once (even if you don't
     have specific questions), and to "lurk" for a while before posting to the
     groups. If you are just stopping by to sell something, don't bother --
     we've seen the "MAKE MONEY FAST" post and other scams before, and we don't
     appreciate them. We're primarily here for discussion of gambling topics,
     so if you won't be around to hold up your end of the discussion, then it
     is very unlikely that your post is appropriate for this group. Messages of
     the form "gambling is evil/stupid/unhealthy" are completely unwelcome
     here.

   *  If there is any question about the legality of your message, then you
     probably shouldn't post it. Although it is perfectly OK to talk about
     gambling here, we cannot actually _gamble_ here, and we cannot post
     messages which could be construed as assisting someone to perform wagering
     services of any kind.

   *  Advertisements are generally not welcome in USENET newsgroups, and
     rec.gambling is no exception. If you have something to sell, please use
     the appropriate .forsale newsgroup instead. However, some leeway may be
     permitted for software and books that are gambling related, especially if
     special discounts are offered to the rec.gambling community. Long ads are
     simply not appropriate. Frequent posting of ads is also not appropriate --
     once a month is often enough.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section I: Information Sources

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ lists.
A:I1 (Steve Jacobs)

The FAQ files are posted to the specific group for the FAQ file (such as
rec.gambling.craps for the Craps FAQ) as well as to rec.gambling.misc. These
posts are made regularly, usually once every three weeks. This welcome message
is actually part of the FAQ for rec.gambling.*, but the welcome message is
posted once each week in order to provide a convenient starting point for new
readers, and to avoid posts by people who are looking for the FAQ.

The multiple posted (ASCII) parts of the FAQ are archived at rtfm.mit.edu
(18.181.0.24) in the directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq. The files
are: welcome, general, casinos, blackjack, poker, craps, sports, and misc. To
obtain the files, first try ftp to rtfm.mit.edu and look under that directory.
If ftp does not work from your site, then try the mail server:

send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with

     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/welcome
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/general
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/casinos
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/blackjack
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/poker
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/craps
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/sports
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/other-games

in the body of the message (leave the subject line empty). If you don't want
all of them, include only the lines of the ones you want. You must repeat the
path information for each file.

The ASCII versions of the FAQ are also available from ftp.conjelco.com in the
directory pub/faq.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
A:I2 (Steve Jacobs)

Chuck Weinstock has created HTML versions of all sections of the rec.gambling
FAQ, and made them available at ConJelCo. The latest versions of these FAQ
lists may be obtained via the World Wide Web at:

     Rec.gambling FAQ http://www.conjelco.com/faq/

The following sites may also be of interest to gamblers:

     Atlantic City http://pluto.njcc.com/~lemke/ac/ac.html
     ConJelCo Home Page http://www.conjelco.com/
     Foxwoods Maillist Homepage http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~jeg/r.g/fox/fox.html
     Las Vegas Advisor http://www.infi.net/vegas/lva/
     Las Vegas Online http://www.intermind.net/las.vegas.on-line/homepage.html
     Maryland Casinos http://www.jaeger.com/~erich/marygamb.html
     Reno Hilton http://www.sierra.net/Hilton/Reno/
     Virtual Las Vegas http://www.infi.net/vegas/vlv/
     Vegas.com Home Page http://www.vegas.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I3 Where is the gambling archive?
A:I3 (Abdul Jalib M'Hall)

The gambling archive is intended to store stuff *useful* to rec.gamblers, like
the FAQ lists, blackjack card-counting information, poker statistics, etc. It
is not intended at this time to store all the daily drivel of rec.gambling.*.

The archive is accessible via anonymous ftp to ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
(128.32.43.51). (Type "ftp ftp.csua.berkeley.edu" or "ftp 128.32.43.51" and
then "anonymous" when it asks for the name, followed by your email address when
it asks for the password. Then "cd pub/rec.gambling".)

If you have some things you would like to contribute to the archive, contact
ctl@csua.berkeley.edu.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
A:I4 (Steve Jacobs, Mike Northam)

Gambler's Book Club has a vast selection of books on topics related to
gambling. They are located at 630 South 11th Street in Las Vegas.

  Gambler's Book Club
  Box 4115
  Las Vegas, NV 89127
  (702) 382-7555
  (702) 382-7594 (FAX)
  (800) 634-6243 (orders only)

  Gamblers Bookstore
  99 N. Virginia St.
  Reno, NV  89501
  (800) 748-5797

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
A:I5 (Chuck Weinstock)

One of our rec.gamblers (Chuck Weinstock) has established relationships with
publishers of gambling books, newsletters, videos, and software and offers
their products at a discount to rec.gamblers. Orders must be placed through
Chuck Weinstock (weinstock@conjelco.com). Contact him for a list of what is
available, and ordering information, or look for the ConJelCo Home Page at
http://www.conjelco.com on the World Wide Web.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
A:I6 (Martin Veneroso, John Murphy, Steve Jacobs)

Horse Racing

     There is a mailing list for discussion of horse racing and handicapping.
     If you are interested in joining us, send a note to
     derby-request@inslab.uky.edu and be sure to include an Internet email
     address (i.e., a "@" address.).

     Also see the newsgroup alt.sport.horse-racing.

Bay Area Poker List

     The ba-poker mailing list is just a bunch of folks, mostly located in the
     San Francisco Bay Area, who like to read about poker as it is played in
     the Bay Area, and a few who like to write about it. We discuss both home
     and commercial (card room) poker, including who's doing what where, a
     smidgen of strategy, a few tall tales, and very little flaming (although a
     couple of battles have broken out in the past).

     A fair estimate of the traffic probably would be ten or twenty messages a
     week, but they tend to be clumped around someone raising an issue. The
     list as gone a couple of weeks without distributing any messages, although
     that is becoming more rare as the number of subscribers climbs slowly --
     we have about 150 now.

     To subscribe, send a message to majordomo@best.com, with a message body
     of:

     SUBSCRIBE ba-poker

     or, for the digest version of the mailing list:

     SUBSCRIBE ba-poker-digest

     -- if you would like your message to be seen by a human rather than an
     automated server, send it to owner-ba-poker@best.com (which goes to Martin
     Veneroso).

Colorado Gaming Mailing List

     Send email to ccbh-request@hpesjlm.fc.hp.com to join a mailing list for
     gaming in Colorado.

The Foxwoods Maillist

     The Foxwoods Maillist consists of folks who like to indulge in a little
     poker, BJ, craps, roulette, etc., etc., even Bingo(!) at their favorite
     cardroom/casino,... in this case the Foxwoods Resort Casino located near
     Ledyard, CT. The maillist is used to trade trip report, discuss issues of
     game strategy, checkup on "ride-sharing", plan for get-togthers and
     special events (e.g. NETS tourney's), cry about "bad-beats", crow about
     those big wins, etc., etc. There are (as of 5/15/95) approximately 100
     subscribers to the list, and not all are located in the
     Boston/Providence/Hartford/NYC area (there are even some CA rec.gamblers
     subscribed!).

     A World Wide Web page is also available to FW Maillist subscribers as well
     as to the rec.gambling community in general, and contains information on
     "Where is Foxwoods?", "How do you get there?", "What about the hotels and
     restaurants at FW and in the surrounding area?", "What are the games, and
     the comps policies?", Special Events, a "Who's Who", an email archive, and
     a collection of FW trip reports. The URL for The FW Maillist Homepage is:

     http://www.tc.cornell.edu/~jeg/r.g/fox/fox.html.

     All maillist administrivia (e.g. subscription requests, "unsubscribes",
     etc.) should be sent to meta-fw-request@tc.cornell.edu. To send mail to
     the approx. 100 folks currently subscribed to this maillist, send to
     meta-fw-list@tc.cornell.edu.

Hotels

     Questions about hotels and restaurants are often posted to
     rec.gambling.misc. Similar information about Las Vegas can be found in the
     newsgroup alt.vacation.las-vegas

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section H: History of Rec.Gambling

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
A:H1 (thunk, Steve Jacobs, Selim Guncer)

The orginal RFD for rec.gambling was posted in mid 1989. alt.gambling was
created in August, 1989, by an over-enthusiastic netter who couldn't wait for
the voting. Meanwhile, the vote for rec.gambling was held, and passed 189-41.
The election results were announced on September 23, 1989, and the group
created one week later.

During the early years (roughly 1990 and 1991), blackjack and craps were
probably the most popular topics on rec.gambling. This was before there was a
FAQ, and much of the focus was on card counting and computer simulations of
blackjack games. Flame wars between blackjack players and craps players were
popular. There was virtually no discussion of poker during this time. The first
BARGE took place in Aug. 1991 (before it was ever called BARGE), and the
Presto!/Irwin legend emerged at that time. The Frank Irwin Memorial Commode
Ceremony also came from this BARGE trip. There were perhaps a dozen
rec.gamblers at the first BARGE. The first rec.gambling FAQ was created late in
1991.

The first WRGPT was launched in early 1992, with Will Hyde acting as dealer.
Poker discussions gained in popularity, partly as a result of this tournament.
Traffic on rec.gambling probably averaged about 10 to 20 posts per day during
this time.

A formal proposal to split rec.gambling we presented early in 1995, and passed
by popular vote. The new newsgroups were created on June 5, 1995. The original
rec.gambling group was superceded by rec.gambling.misc, and was scheduled to be
rmgroup'ed on Aug. 7, (coincidently) right after BARGE '95.

[This section could use a lot of work -- any volunteers?]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:H2 What is WRGPT?
A:H2 (Steve Jacobs)

WRGPT stands for "World Rec.Gambling.Poker Tournament". This is an annual poker
tournament played by email. The tournament usually begins in the fall, and
usually lasts many months, to the complete aggravation of some of the players.

WRGPT1 started early in 1992 with 30 players. WRGPT1 was dealt by hand, with
Will Hyde devoting much of his time to the task. Steve Jacobs won the
tournament by eliminating Ken Butler and Bharat Rao on the last hand with K-T
offsuit.

WRGPT2 attracted about 130 players, and began in the fall of 1992. This
tournament, and those that followed, were dealt by Ron Duursma's excellent
email poker server. Ed Baker took first place in this event, coming from behind
to eliminate Jeff Jennings. Roy Hashimoto was 3rd.

WRGPT3 attracted about 200 players, and began in the fall of 1993. Roy
Hashimoto won this event, becoming the second rec.gambler to win both WRGPT and
BARGE titles. Marco Westerweel placed second in this even, and Kristofer Munn
placed third, edging out fourth place Ron Duursma (to whom we all owe much
thanks for writing the mail server that is used to deal WRGPT events).

WRGPT4 attracted 376 players, and was won Lee Jones, well known to rec.gambling
as the author of "Winning Low Limit Hold'em". Can Lee win the BARGE '95
tournament to become the 3rd rec.gambler to win WRGPT/BARGE tournaments
back-to-back?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:H3 What is BARGE?
A:H3 (Steve Jacobs)

[This is pretty rough folks, anyone with fond BARGE memories? If so, please
send them in for inclusion in the r.g history FAQ. My apologies if I've left
out important details, or gotten some fact fixed up here.]

BARGE stands for "Big August Rec.Gambling Excursion". This is the annual
rec.gambling gathering, so far always in August (can you imagine a worse time
to go to Vegas?), but if we go some other month we can change the "August" to
"Annual" in order to preserve the acronym.

The first BARGE consisted of maybe a dozen people, mostly in Vegas to attend
SIGGRAPH '91 (well, at least that's how they got their companies to pay the
airfare). We met at the Frontier for breakfast, and at Gambler's Book Club to
check out the latest periodicals. Several rec.gamblers pitched in to purchase a
book to help launch Abdul Jalib M'Hall's blackjack career.

BARGE 2 had more attendees, about 20 in all, and included meetings at the
Frontier, GBC, and a live poker tournament held in a hotel room. The main
gathering took place at the Frontier coffee shop, where about a dozen
rec.gamblers met for a midnight meal (thanks, Edmund). In keeping with
rec.gambling tradition, Steve Jacobs won the first live BARGE poker tournament,
becoming the first rec.gambler to win both an WRGPT event and a BARGE event.

BARGE 3 had about 30 attendees, of which about 20 participated in the live
poker tournament held at the Rio. Special chips were created to commemorate
BARGE 3, and were sold through rec.gambling to raise a prize fund (including a
set of 300 chips as a trophy) for the winner of the tournament. Roy Hashimoto,
who flew to Vegas especially for the tournament, took first place. Each
attendee at BARGE 3 received a special limited edition purple BARGE chip, which
have becoming highly prized collectors items.

BARGE 4 had about 90 attendees, of which 60 paid entry fees in advance for the
live poker tournament at the Luxor. A calcutta was held the night before to
auction off players from the poker tournament. Roy Hashimoto designed some
fabulous poker chips for the BARGE 4 trophy, which went to Dave Hughes. Cash
prizes were paid for 1st through 6th place, with teddy bears going to Jeff
Jennings for placing 7th and to John Murphy for being the first player to bust
out of the tournament. This year a live blackjack tournament was added to the
agenda, attracting about 30 players and many spectators to a high roller suite
somewhere on the world famous Las Vegas Strip. [Who won the BJ tournament? Who
bought Dave Hughes to win the Calcutta?] An informal gathering for pot-limit
Texas Hold'em was held later at the Luxor, and a bachelor party was held for
Steve "Bozo" Blackstock at a location which might cause him undo grief if it
were revealed here.

The early BARGE trips were mostly spontaneous events, with little advance
planning and consequently little advance notice, so if you couldn't drop
everything and fly to Vegas then you missed out. But, such spontaneity isn't
too practical for large groups, so now we try to plan things a bit more. An
email list has been created to help those interested in BARGE to plan for the
trip. To be added to the mailing list, send email to BARGE-request@vmark.com.
Messages to the mailing list itself should be sent to BARGE@vmark.com.

See http://www.conjelco.com/barge.html for the latest information on BARGE 95.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:H4 What is IRC Poker?
A:H4 (Steve Jacobs)

IRC poker is a real-time network poker game that allows people from around the
world to play poker with each other via the internet. The stakes are imaginary
"etherbucks". For more information about IRC Poker, see the rec.gambling.poker
FAQ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section S: Spare us!
Page last modified: 4-07-95

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These questions come up occasionally, causing a lot of heated discussions and
wasted bandwidth. The rec.gambling regulars are pretty sick of seeing these
questions, and they would appreciate it if you just didn't ask them. If you do
ask, we'll probably just say "see the FAQ list".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:S1 Martingale betting systems -- just double your bet until you win
A:S1 (Frank Irwin, Steve Jacobs)

From: "The Eudaemonic Pie" by Thomas A. Bass

     The word comes from the French expression "porter les chausses a la
     martingale," which means "to wear one's pants like the natives of
     Martigue," a village in Provence where trousers are fastened at the
     rear. The expression implies that this style of dress and method of
     betting are equally ridiculous.

The betting scheme merely states that you would want to double your bet after
each loss. Beginning with one unit, you would bet two units if you lost the
first. Then four, then eight, until you win a bet. You would then revert to a
one unit bet. The theory is that with each win you will win all that you lost
since the last win, plus one unit. The reality is that you will quickly come to
a betting ceiling, governed by either your bankroll or the house limit, above
which you may not increase your bet. After 9 straight losses (it's happened to
me) you would be betting 512 units.

In practice, a lot of people get sucked into betting this way because it gives
the illusion of really working. This is because most of the time, you will end
a string of bets with a win. However, on those rare occasions when you do lose,
you will lose a lot of money. So, the end result is that you win a small amount
almost always, but when you lose you will lose more than all of your little
wins combined.

The important point to realize is that most games simply cannot be beat in the
long run. In games such as craps, roulette, and non-progressive slot machines,
it is mathematically impossible to gain an advantage over the house.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:S2 The Inevitable Monty Hall
A:S2 (Steve Jacobs)

You are a contestant on "Let's Make A Deal", and Monty Hall offers you your
choice of three doors. One door has a prize, and the other two doors are empty.
Monty knows in advance where the prize is, and no matter which door you pick,
Monty will open one of the other doors to show you that it is empty. Monty then
offers to allow you to trade your door for the other unopened door. What should
you do?

My best advice is to grab Monty around the neck and strangle him :-)

The short answer is that you should switch doors, because it increases your
chance of winning from 1/3 to 2/3. The odds are not 50/50, because the
probability that the prize is behind the door you originally picked is 1/3, and
this probability never changes until the prize is revealed. This can be seen by
considering what happens if you decide to *never* switch doors -- in this case
you will win one time in three, since you will win only if your original pick
is correct. So, if you *always* switch you will win 2/3 of the time, since you
win whenever your original pick was wrong. Since Monty can (and will) always
show an empty door, it is as if he is saying "you can keep your door, or you
can trade it for BOTH of the other doors, and to confuse you I will show you
that one of the other doors is empty, even though you already knew that".

Some of you won't believe that this is correct. You will say "after Monty opens
a door, there are only two choices so you have an equal chance of winning
whether you switch or not". This is wrong. The fact that there are only two
choices does NOT imply that the two choices have equal probability. Still not
convinced? Suppose there are 100 doors, and only one prize. You pick a door,
and Monty shows you 98 empty doors (he can always do this, since he knows where
the prize is), and offers to let you switch. The chance that your original pick
was right is 1/100. If you never switch, you will almost always lose.
Therefore, if you always switch you will almost always win.

Not convinced? Try it yourself, but try playing the role of Monty in order to
help see how it works. Don't ask rec.gambling, because we'll know you didn't
really try it yourself.

The confusion caused by this question shows that probability problems often go
against human intuition. This question appeared (several times) in the "Ask
Marilyn" column of the "Parade" insert that appears in many Sunday newspapers
in the United States. Many people with Ph.D.'s in mathematics claimed in wild
disbelief that Marilyn's answer [2/3] was wrong, and that it was a sad
commentary on the American education system. Indeed it is, because the
mathematicians were wrong. [Note: there has been some discussion as to whether
Marilyn phrased the question correctly and/or unambiguously in her column. This
report is based on (possibly flawed) memory. Slight changes in the wording of
the question can result in much different answers, which obviously adds to the
confusion. --SRJ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:S3 How much would you pay to play this game?
A:S3 (John P. Nelson)

     I flip a coin until it comes up tails. If it comes up tails the first
     time, you get $2; if the second, $4; if the third time, $8. That is,
     if I flip the coin N times, you get 2^N bucks. [How much would you
     pay to play this game?]

The problem is, of course, that the "expected value" of this game is an
infinite series that does not converge: The "expected" win appears to be
infinite. However, in any REAL implementation of this game, there would have to
be an upper limit to your liability: It would be unreasonable to expect you to
really pay off a win of trillions of dollars.

If you put an upper limit on the number of flips, then the expected value of
the game converges, and it is quite easy to calculate the "break even" wager.
If we limit the game to N flips, and you pay me $2^M if tails comes up on the
M'th flip and if N flips occur with no tails, you pay me 2^(N+1), then the
expected value of each game is simply N+2. (A variation on the rules: If you
pay me 0 if N flips occur with no tails, then the expected value of the game is
$N).

This is fairly easy to calculate: On each independent trial, the chance of a
tails is 1/2. Clearly, the chance of a tails on the second trial is 1/4 (1/2
chance of heads on the first trial, times 1/2 chance of tails on the second
trial). The odds of a tail occurring on the Nth flip is 1/(2^N). The payoff at
that point is 2^N. So we have the series:

1/2 * payoff-1flip + 1/4 * payoff-2flip + 1/8 * payoff-3flip

or:

  $2     $4     $8      $(2^N)
  --  +  --  +  -- ...  ------
   2      4      8      $(2^N).

Given a maximum of N flips, the expected win is 1+1+1..., N times. Given a $0
payoff on N heads in a row, that is the total expected win: N. If you pay off
2^(N+1) after N tails, the final term is

    $(2^(N+1))
    ----------  = 2
      $(2^N)

Which explains where the +2 in (N+2) comes from.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section G: General Gambling Topics

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G1 What casino game has the best odds?
A:G1 (Steve Jacobs)

In general, blackjack is the most favorable game in the casino. The house edge
for blackjack ranges from about 0.15% to 0.45%, depending on the house rules
and number of decks. Occasionally, single deck games can be found which give a
slight edge to the player. The house edge for other casino games is listed
below. In games involving skill, these numbers assume that an optimal betting
and playing strategy is used. Note that many forms of video poker are favorable
to the player, although these machines are often difficult to find.

     Video Poker (Jacks or better): 0.5% to -0.7%
     Video Poker (Deuces Wild): 4% to -1.7%
     Progressive Video Poker ("8/5" payoffs): 2.2% to -2%
     Craps line bets with single odds: 0.8%
     Craps line bets with double odds: 0.6%
     Baccarat "bank" bet: 1.06%
     Baccarat "player" bet: 1.24%
     Red Dog: 2.8%
     Roulette, double zero wheel: 5.26%
     Roulette, single zero wheel (rare): 2.7%
     Keno (estimate): 20% to 25%
     State Lottery: 50% or more

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G2 What are comps?
A:G2 (Carla Regon)

A comp is a reduced room rate or a meal. Sometimes it is a free stay in the
casino's hotel. A comp that is described as RFB means that the casino is giving
you free room (R), food (F) and beverage (B).

"Comps" or complimentaries should be looked at as if they were intangible
discounts. Comps are not gifts. Can you picture a casino giving you a gift? Get
real!

A comp usually takes the form of a chit that you take to the coffee shop or the
buffet and hand to the hostess who gives it to the waitress. The comp shows
them that the casino is paying for your meal and one or two drinks. By the way,
a comp is always for two people, at the minimum. A comp never includes the tip
("toke" in Vegas language) so don't forget to leave one or you risk a lap of
coffee the next time. If the casino is comping you to dinner in the gourmet
room or the show room they will make the reservation for you and they will
deliver the chit directly to the Maitre 'd. Oh yes, if you are comped you go to
the "casino guest" line and don't have to wait around with the peons.

A comp is given to you because the casino wants you to play in their casino.
They are not given to you because they like you. They may, in fact, like you,
but, and I'm sorry to burst your bubble, they like, and want, your money more.
So, if you are comped look on it as a reward for your play at the tables and in
anticipation of your future play. If you budgeted $500 for the weekend for you
and your wife as follows: $300 room, $200 food; and the hotel gave you casino
rates (one-half off), which is a type of comp, a chit for lunch at the coffee
shop one day ($25) and the buffet for dinner another ($25) think of it as
having received discount certificates for $200. It's just like those super
market coupons that you get in the Sunday paper.

The game of comps is just like looking for a super market that gives you double
coupons. (Double coupons? Guys, ask your wives or girl friends.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G3 How do you get comps?
A:G3 (Frank Irwin, Abdul Jalib M'hall, Dave Everett, Carla Regon)

The first thing that you must remember about casinos is that there is NO free
lunch. If you want to get a comp, any kind of a comp, you must gamble at the
casino and then ask for a comp. Come on don't be shy - ASK!! Also, ask before
you are ready to leave the casino. Do you really think the casino will pay for
your room as you are wait ing to check out, suitcase in hand? Of course not.
They'll tell you all about what they'll do for you the next time you are there,
but, oh, so sorry, not this time. So you must guide yourself accordingly.

Second thing that will make your quest for comps easier is to remember that
anyone can get a comp, from the dollar slot player to the thousand dollar a
hand baccarat player. The only difference is the amount of the comp. A two
bedroom suite versus a single room with bunk beds or a coffee shop breakfast
versus a champagne dinner in the gourmet room. So don't think that just because
you are betting three dollars on the pass line you can't get comped. In the
next section, What Comps Are Available, there is an excellent chart showing the
differences based on casino gambling action.

The prerequisite for getting comped is to let the casino know who you are and
how much you are betting. This is called "getting rated." You let the casino
know who you are and how much you are gambling by telling the pit floorman or
pit boss that you want to be "rated." To do this you should have a handy form
of identification such as a slot club card or a marker privilege card (more
about these cards in the sections below on casino credit and markers). Your
driver's license will also do.

When you arrive at the table just tell the floorman that you'd like to be
rated. If your buy-in (the amount of money you initially put down on the table
in exchange for chips) or your action (the amount you bet) is high enough, he
will fill out a rating slip on you. Sometimes, the floorman will approach you
and ask you if you want to be rated. Always say "Yes." Heck it's their computer
and you may want to get some comps later that day. The rating slips are
compiled at the end of the day and the information entered into the casino's
computer.

In many casinos, you give the floorman a card, much like a credit card, as you
approach the table. He will either just fill out a rating slip, as in Vegas, or
he will swipe the card through a reader. When you leave, ask for your card
back.

The floormen will keep track of your buy-in, your initial bet, your average
bet, and your win/loss ratio. Notwithstanding anything that you have heard to
the contrary a casino does NOT care if you leave a winner. Happy winners tell
their friends and return to lose their winnings. So, really, don't bother
trying to hide chips from the dealer, it's a waste of time and only shows that
you are not that sophisticated in your gambling. If you don't believe what
you've just read let me give you a good example. If you win a super jackpot at
a casino they will comp your room and give you a big dinner in the gourmet
room. Sometimes they will fly you home in the casino's private jet. Why?
Because happy winners TALK and talk is called word of mouth publicity. You are
happy and you will return with your friends. So stop trying to hide your
winnings. It will not effect your comps. The comps will be offered anyway. If
you're a winner the casino will comp you because they want you back. They want
you back to lose what you have won. If you play in the afternoon and get a comp
for dinner it is the casino's hope that you will play after dinner and lose
what you won during the afternoon or continue to lose if you were doing so that
afternoon. Besides that, the casino knows exactly how much you've won, they
simply can't be fooled.

The amount of your comp worth is generally half of your average bet per hour.
In most Las Vegas casinos (except places such as the Mirage and Caesars) you
are expected to play for 4 hours a day at an average $25 bet to qualify for a
room. A sample comp chart, from the Stardust Casino, follows.

[The amount of the comp is worth some constant fraction times the average bet
per hour, that constant depends upon the casino management's evaluation of
their advantage per decision, and the number of decisions per hour. Half is
high. A quarter is more likely for blackjack out of a shoe. --Dave Everett]

The value of your comps depend not only on your play, but on the casino where
you are playing and whether you have credit there. In a later section I'm going
to walk you through a complete weekend's procedure for getting comps the very
first time, whether you've been rated or not.

To get a comp, after you have followed all the above, you must ask a casino
host or the floorman in the pit where you are playing for a comp for lunch in
the coffee shop or dinner in the buffet. He'll check your play, i.e., rating,
and either give it to you or say that he can't. If you get a "no" don't get
angry. Just put him on the defensive. You'll be surprised how quickly a "Fine,
I can go next door tonight" will work. By the way, that will not work too well
if you are only playing dollar chips.

If a casino floorman or host comes by to introduce himself and asks you if
there is anything you want, ask him, right then and there, for that lunch or
dinner comp or a reduced rate for your room. Don't take "no" for an answer. If
your action has stimulated their interest they are already prepared to comp
you. Go for it. Learn not to let them off the hook. If they have approached you
don't let them do the "later" routine. Get your comp right there. Most casino
floormen have comping authority for the coffee shop or the buffet. The gourmet
room or the hotel room may take a pit boss or higher to approve.

After you have played at a few casinos you will learn the worth of your action
and be able to gauge the value of the comps you deserve.

A side note - If you ever call a casino or ask an employee for something, be it
a comp or whatever, and he says something like, "Let me see if you rate that,"
stomp all over him. It is insulting and degrading to be told by anyone that you
don't "rate" something. Just remember that casino employees are notoriously
under paid and this may be that person's way of getting one-upmanship. Bull
donkeys.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G4 What is the Casino Host Department?
A:G4 (Carla Regon)

One of the casino departments that you should get familiar with is the Casino
Host Department. They have employees called, obviously, Casino Hosts. There are
table game hosts and slot hosts and even a keno host in one hotel. Their job is
to get your name and address, make you comfortable, see that you enjoy yourself
and get you to return. They can and do pass out comps. Get as many cards of
casino hosts as you can. Give them your card. Say hello to them when you see
them. Get them to remember you. It is their job and they will do so. Get one
host in particular that you like and stick to her. Ask her when you want a
comp.

Use casino hosts for your return trip. Make your reservations by calling the
host department and asking for your chosen host. She will assist you and you
will often get more then you deserve in the host's hope that you will play more
then the last trip. Hosts make their career by cajoling nice players into good
players and then up to great players or by finding and keeping good players.

A good casino host relationship should always guarantees a fruit basket in your
room when you arrive. Also, if the casino does not have a host, then use your
favorite pit boss for the same services.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G5 What comps are available?
A:G5 (Frank Irwin)

The following is a listing of the comp schedule for the Stardust Casino in Las
Vegas, Nevada. This can be considered typical for a Las Vegas casino (casinos
such as the Mirage or Caesars may require more action). In the table below,
"Player line" is the player's established line of credit, and "Front money" is
money deposited in the casino cage against which the player can write markers.

  Player Line or    Average     Hours       Complimentaries
   Front Money        Bet       Played         Extended

                        $25       4         Comp. Room
                        $50       4         Comp. Room,
                                            Limited F & B

  $5,000                $75       4         Room, Food
                                            & Beverage
                       $100       4         RFB & $150
                                            Airfare Reimburse

  $10,000              $125       4         RFB & $250
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $150       4         RFB & $400
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $175       4         RFB & $575
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $200       4         RFB & $750
                                            Airfare Reimburse

  $20,000              $250       4         RFB & $1000
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $300       4         RFB & $1200
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $400       4         RFB & $1500
                                            Airfare Reimburse
                       $500       4         RFB & $1500
                                            Airfare Reimburse

  NOTES:

  A.  These requirements are based on four hours play per day.  Excess playing
      time reduces the average bet requirement and higher average bets reduce
      the playing time requirement.  For Example:  A $200 bet for 2 hours is
      equal to a $100 bet for 4 hours.

  B.  Airfare reimbursements are based on a minimum of 12 hours playing time.

  C.  Complimentary food and beverage are to include the player and one guest.

  D.  Size of bet in dice is the sum of all flat, place, proposition, field,
      come and buy bets.

  E.  Excessive RFB usage reduces airfare reimbursement amounts.

  F.  Please let our friendly floor staff know who you are when you initiate
      play at any table.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G6 How do I get a casino credit line?
A:G6 (Frank Irwin, Carla Regon)

This is easy. Just call up one of the casinos and ask for the credit department
or a casino host. Tell him that you would like to set up a line of credit.
Either he'll ask you some questions, or send you to someone who will. They just
take down your name, address, phone number, place of business, what you do and
a bank account number. You can ask for any particular credit line, but what
they give you will depend on how much you have in your account. If you have a
savings account that contains more than your checking account, give them both
numbers.

When you apply for credit the casino will also check your past history with
Central Credit, the TRW of the casino industry. By the way, if you ever stiff a
casino you will be marked a bad risk with Central Credit and will not be able
to get credit at any casino in North America or the Caribbean. So, as a side
point, no matter what your beef is with the hotel or the casino always pay your
markers. PERIOD! Also, casinos are required to comply with Federal law on
credit approvals, but they never do so don't expect a notice with your past
credit history. The way they get around complying is to issue credit for $10.

You can also ask them to send you a credit application which you can fill out
at home. When you get it and fill it out return it with photo copies of your
driver's license and a check from the account you are using as a reference.
That will save you time when you get to the casino because they will want to
make copies of these anyway. It will also make you appear quite experienced.

No matter what the casino's cover letter to you may say, most casinos will not
notify you about your credit so I suggest calling about two weeks after you
have sent in the application to see if your line was established.

Your application will also be noted in the files of Central Credit so if you
have $25,000 in your account but apply around town in eight casinos for $5,000
each you may not get what you request because you are showing a total potential
loss of $40,000 and have only $25,000 available. As you get more experienced
this will not be a problem because the record will show your gaming and payback
experience.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G7 How are "markers" used?
A:G7 (Frank Irwin, Dave Everett)

At the beginning of your first trip to a casino after establishing credit, you
will be required to go to the cage to sign some papers and let them copy your
driver's license. You will also indicate how you wish to pay for any
outstanding markers upon your departure. If it's your first trip, they may want
you to settle before you leave. Later, you may be able to work our some sort of
payment plan.

When you walk up to a table, ask the floorman for a marker. He'll get your name
and go away for a little while. When he comes back, he'll give you a bank check
to sign. This is a counter check, which is a form of bank draft, and has the
legal force of a regular check. They may take money out of your account on this
check. Additionally, these markers may require manual intervention and
attention when presented to your bank for processing. If you don't want your
banker to know where your money is going, don't leave behind a marker; pay it
up with a regular bank check.

If you win at the table (and don't squirrel chips away :-), the floorman may
ask you to buy back your marker. This is exactly what you do; you give the
dealer chips equal to your marker, and the floorman gives you your bank check.
In many casinos, markers are not redeemed at the table, but the player must go
to the cashier's cage to buy back the marker. In order for you to establish a
credit line, Atlantic City casinos commonly have you sign a statement in which
you agree, more or less, not to "walk" with chips when you owe them money for a
marker. This also means that you are not supposed to convert chips to cash
while they hold your marker. This is usually not interpreted as being on a
daily basis, but rather on a trip basis. That is, if you've signed markers for
$1000, and have 7 black chips in your possession, they do not want you to cash
the 7 chips, and walk with their $700 while you owe them $1000. They want you
to turn in the chips, and owe them $300.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G8 A walk through on getting comped.
A:G8 (Carla Regon)

OK - You've read the above advice and have decided to go to Las Vegas and see
how many comps you can get. I'm going to walk you through a complete weekend
and the preliminaries. The following always assumes you and another person (a
friend, your wife, girl friend, man friend).

I'm going to assume that you are a complete novice at obtaining complimentaries
so for you more advanced players, please bear with me. Heck, I hope that you'll
all learn something. Also if you've already been rated at the casino I'll
discuss your procedure which is a bit different from the unrated player.

You decide that in about six weeks you want to go to Las Vegas. As you've read
rec.gambling.* and the FAQs you know about comps and you decide that you want
to get comped as much as possible during your trip.

Pick a half a dozen hotels where you feel you can be comfortable remembering
the value of your play will determine how many comps you get. Then write down
the following:

   * Your gambling budget,
   * Your average bet,
   * Your average time playing.

Let's see what you get - A budget of $2,500, an average bet at black jack of
$10 to $15 a hand and up and you usually stay at the tables 5 hours a day. Your
realistic approach will let you know that you are not going to get comped at
Caesars or the Mirage. So why not try the following hotels: Downtown: Lady Luck
and Fitzgeralds; Off the Strip: Palace Station and the Rio; Near or on the
Strip: Maxim and the Aladdin. A note - A $25 a hand and up blackjack player or
a $75 a hand crap shooter should be able to get full RFB comps at any of the
better hotels. Not the Mirage, of course, but the other better hotels.

With your list in hand and the telephone numbers from the FAQ start calling.
Ask for the Casino Credit Department. Ask the person who answers to send you a
credit application.

Now recall the casino and ask for the Casino Host Department. Ask for a host.
Some casinos give the preliminary introduction to a clerk, but ask for a host.
When he or she gets on the line introduce yourself and ask him what their comp
arrangements are. He'll ask you if you have a line of credit and have you been
rated before. In other words he's asking you if he should look you up on the
computer to see your history.

If you've been to the casino before and have been rated tell the host that you
were there on such and such a date and did ask to be rated. He'll look you up
on the computer and tell you something like, "Gee, Jack, I can get you in on
casino rates. If you play four hours a day at $15 a hand I'll comp the coffee
shop and the buffet too." You might want to ask him what he will comp for $25
or $50 a hand just to see the way they pass out comps. Tell him thank you and
you'll check on the dates your (wife, etc) wants to go and will call him back.
Now check all the other choices until you find a deal you like. No, they do not
compare notes over drinks that night.

Now, if you never been rated then call, just like above, and say you've not
been rated. You'll get an answer like, "Jane, I can give you RFB for $25 a hand
with four hours of play." Thank him and check the others.

OK, now that you've got a feel for the way comps are offered, remembering that
you are actually testing for single or double discount coupons, make a choice.

Take that credit application you received for the casino you chose, fill it
out, copy your driver's license and a blank check on one page and return them
together to the casino in the envelope supplied. I would suggest that you fill
out credit applications for one or two casinos to start and then fill out more
as your gaming progresses.

Check about two weeks later and see how much credit they authorized. A tip -
Don't bother asking for $1,000. You can get that anywhere. Be realistic and
remember that the higher your line, the better your initial offer of comps will
be, i.e., a $25,000 line will guarantee you a suite on the strip but you should
be able to play at that rate.

OK, let's assume that you've been approved for a line of between $5,000 and
$10,000. Call back the casino host at the hotel you chose. Remind him that you
spoke before. Tell him when you want to visit. Tell him how much you line is.
He'll make the reservation for you. By the way, if you don't have time for a
credit check you can bring funds with you and deposit them in the cage (front
money) against which you can draw markers.

If you see advertised specials in your newspaper you can get the host to bring
you in on one of these, but with a better class of room. Sometimes these
specials are much less then casino rates.

If the trip is your first you may get a reservation under a "will qualify"
theory. That means that you will be comped only if you play up to the agreement
that you made with the host, i.e., you must qualify for the comps. Just charge
everything to your room as instructed and read the rest of this section.

OK, you arrive. Go to the cage and get your credit finalized by proving that
you are you, signing a couple of ledger pages and getting your ID card. Find
and meet the host. Glad hand him - He'll glad hand you. If you haven't had
lunch he'll give you a starting comp. Now, whenever you go to a table show the
floorman your card and make sure you are being rated. They will do it
automatically if you take a marker, but you should ask. You'll be amazed how
quickly they will recognize you and start calling you, "Hey, Miss R, How are
you."

Charge everything to your room. Breakfast, lunch and room service. Ask your
host to make reservations (use the word "reservations") if you want the gourmet
room.

Remember that tips are NOT included in comps. I always sign the check and pay
the tip in cash directly to the waiter. That way the total of the room bill
does not include tips.

At the end of your trip you should find your comps deducted from your statement
at check out time. If it is not immediately call for your casino host. If he's
off insist on a casino representative. You will find that your play is on the
computer so any host or shift manager can get your comps straightened out. Be
nice. If they stonewall you, well, you've been the subject of a group of jerks.
Write the casino manager, threaten to write to the travel editor of your local
paper. You will probably find a credit forthcoming. No casino wants to be
marked as a bunch of crooks. If it is your first trip to that hotel I suggest
that you try to check out with time to spare just to avoid a last minute
hassle. Also see Carla's special recommendation on comps below.

Now some hints:

   * About the middle of the second day check with your host to make sure you
     are getting what he promised. Also, remember this - If you win, keep on
     asking for markers and getting rated even though you've got the cash to
     pay them back immediately. That way you show your playing time in the
     casino. If I win I deposit the money in the cage for two reasons. I don't
     want to carry the money with me and it pays back already drawn markers.

   * If you have never been seriously comped before, why not start at one of
     the less exclusive hotels and casinos where you don't have to play like a
     Maharajah. Try the Lady Luck or Fitzgeralds down down or Sam's Town or the
     Maxim. They want your action and they will comp you at $10 or $20 a hand
     black jack. That way you can learn how its done before you move up to
     Bally's or the Sahara.

   * The way to never get a comp again is to take advantage. Don't order a
     bottle of 25 year old scotch and expect the casino to comp it. Don't take
     your cousin and his three kids to lunch and expect the casino to comp the
     check. Be realistic and remember what your discount includes.

   * Play at the casino. Sure, you can go elsewhere, but remember that you have
     an obligation if you want to get comped.

Carla's Special Recommendation: I really hate having to beg for comps so I
refuse to do so. My gimmick is to tell the host at a casino I am not known at
that I have specific requirements and I don't give a flying folly for their
policy. I insist on being picked up at the airport and a suite with a few
amenities in it waiting upon my arrival. Though I look forward to meeting the
host I will not seek her out when I'm going to depart. My comps are not a
subject for discussion or argument. I expect the casino to credit my account on
the night before my departure with what my play warrants and I let them know
that I know exactly what my play does warrant. In other words I expect the
casino to treat me like a pro. This works for me and for others that I know.
What it does is avoid that little scene where the host tells you all he can do
for you is comp the coffee shop when you thought you deserved the gourmet room
and then you start begging and whining. I will neither whine nor return if I am
treated shabbily.

Gourmet room tips: If you are comped in the gourmet room it is expected that
you will tip at a higher rate then if you were in the coffee shop. I hate
tipping the waiter, the captain, the wine steward, the maitre d', etc.,
separately so I have devised a way to leave one tip. I call over the captain
and tell him that my tip, in cash, covers the whole room. Most captains
understand this. In the gourmet room I always tip 25 percent of a comped meal.
I thank the maitre d' and tell him that the tip I left includes every one. It
works for me.

Carla's few special words for the ladies: Most gamblers are men, most high
rollers are men, most people getting comps are men. So, ladies, please, do
yourselves and all of us a favor, do not get pushed around in Las Vegas. If you
are playing with your money, and I don't give a flying fig how you got it,
demand to be treated well. Demand the same comps the men get. Don't put up with
rude dealers and floormen and casino hosts who don't have time for the "little
lady." If you stand up for your rights by giving your complaint directly to the
shift manager or the casino manager you will be surprised how well you will be
treated. Remember that your money is as good as a man's money. I have walked
out of hotels and casinos and been called by the casino manager apologizing. I
take a hard attitude and I get away with it. I insist on being picked up at the
airport by limousine, I insist on a one bedroom suite (never a "junior" suite),
I insist on a fruit basket and beer and wine in the room (I'm now also getting
a bottle of Irish whisky).

Sure, I'm loud and a bit brassy, but I expect to be treated like a lady all the
time. I demand it and I get it. I insist on having my chair pulled out for me
when I arrive to play baccarat or for dinner. I once stood by a chair in the
baccarat room until the floorman asked if I needed something. I looked over at
him, smiled, and said, "Why, yes, an employee of the casino who is gentleman
enough to pull out my chair for me." He huffed and walked over, pulled out the
chair, I sat down, stood up, smiled at him and told him I was walking until he
learned some manners. I got an apology from the room manager within ten
minutes. Truthfully, ladies, they won't learn unless we teach them. So, please,
don t get pushed around.

Well, I hope that you will now be able to start on your career as a full
fledged Las Vegas schnorer. Enjoy yourself!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G9 Where can I get casino quality chips?
A:G9 (Abdul Jalib M'hall)

   CHIP SUPPLIER        CITY, STATE      PHONE     REGULAR        PERSONALIZED
  ================= ============== ============== ============== =============
  The Poker Store    Stanton, CA   (714) 895-3783  ?               $55/100
  Paul Son           Las Vegas, NV (702) 384-2425  $.35/each       $.40/each
     "               ???, NJ       (609) 348-8771  $.35/each       $.40/each
     "               Reno, NV      (702) 786-2465  $35/100         $40/100
  Bud Jones Company  Las Vegas, NV (702) 876-2782  ?       1 color:$25/100
     "                "                            ?       2 color:$40/100
  Gamb. Gen. Store   Las Vegas, NV (800) 322-CHIP  ?               $40/100

Note that the chip prices above are for CASINO QUALITY, which means they're
heavy clay and thus rather expensive. The suppliers also have lighter clay
chips and cheap-o plastic chips.

One reason you might want personalized chips, other than for vanity's sake, is
to have dollar amounts put on them. Several places said they can put your
initials on one side and the dollar amount on the other, which is kind of neat.
For their unpersonalized chips, you had a choice of a starburst or a horseshoe
insignia. Paulson was the most flexible, since they'd let you order any
quantity (not just multiples of 100) with no minimum order. All of the
suppliers had a wide variety of colors. Bud Jones Company had solid one color
chips as well as the two colored chips that many casinos use.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G10 Are chip colors standardized?
A:G10 (Dave "4" Everett)

Yes and no.

In the United States, almost all casinos use red for $5 chips, green for $25,
and black for $100. In Las Vegas, other denomination chips can be any color
whatsoever, though $1 chips are generally white or blue.

In Atlantic City, they use the Munsel Color Code system, and is a matter of
regulation. In addition the "inserts" or edge marks used by each casino must be
different in color(s) than those used by all other A.C. casinos for the same
denomination.

  chip value              color           Notes
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  $0.50                   mustard         Never issued.
  $1                      white
  $2.50                   pink            Used for paying blackjacks
  $5                      red
  $20                     yellow
  $25                     green
  $100                    black
  $500                    purple
  $1000                   orange          larger diameter than those above
  $5000                   gray            same diameter as orange chips

Foxwoods and Turning Stone use the same scheme, though neither uses yellow.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G11 What are matchplay chips
A:G11 (Chuck Weinstock, Dave Everett)

A matchplay chip is a non-negotiable chip, usually given by the casino to
induce play at their tables. The chips are good at any table game, but only for
even money bets. Thus you can bet them on craps (line bets), blackjack,
roulette (odd/even, black/red), but not, for instance, the field at craps. When
you play a matchplay chip you must match it with a chip of your own (hence the
name). For the Bally offer I understand the chips have a value of $5.00, so you
must play each one with $5.00 of your own money.

If you lose the bet, you lose your $5.00 and the matchplay chip. If you win
your bet you win $5.00 on your $5.00 and $5.00 (real money) on the matchplay
chip. However, even if you win they take the matchplay chip. (I'm not sure if
this is universal, but it certainly is typical.) I'm not sure how they pay off
Blackjack (which pays 3-2). [ They always take your matchplay chip, win or
lose. Blackjack pays even money on the matchplay chip. - FAI ] [Most casinos
don't take the match play chips on pushes and do pay even money on the match
play portion of blackjacks. Some casinos (e.g. Four Queens) pay 3:2 on the
match play portion of blackjacks. -- Abdul Jalib M'hall]

If you are playing in an even expectation game, you would expect to win half of
your bets. Thus the $200 in matchplay has an expected value of around $100. Of
course this is only an expectation, and you could win or lose much more than
that.

There are also such things as match play coupons. They work just like match
play chips, but they are coupons, printed on paper. It is typical for match
play chips and/or coupons not to be allowed on games where the payout odds are
other than 1:1. In most casinos, a bet consisting of a $5 regular chip and a $5
match play chip will result, if it wins, with a payout of $10 and forfeiture of
the match play chip. If a blackjack occurs, the payout will generally be $7.50
for the regular chip and $5 (even money) for the match play chip, for a total
of $12.50, not $15. At some casinos, they _do_ pay that blackjack as though it
were a $10 bet, and it gets $15.

Another aspect of match play chips/coupons is whether their face value counts
toward meeting the table minimum. At some casinos it does, and at some it does
not. At some casinos, a $5 regular chip and a $5 match play coupon played
together will be considered a $10 bet and will qualify for play at a $10
minimum table. At other casinos, the match play value must be played in
addition to the table minimum in regular chips.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:G12 What are "pit critters"?
A:G12 (Steve Jacobs)

Casino personnel who are responsible for supervising the games and dealers are
often "affectionately" referred to in rec.gambling as "pit critters". The
various species of pit critters are described below:

floorman
     the lowest level of pit critter, and the most likely to be encountered by
     players.
     The floorman is usually responsible for only a few tables.

pit boss
     the next level of pit critter, responsible for several floormen and their
     tables.
     This pit critter supervises one "pit" in the casino.

shift supervisor
     the head pit boss during a particular shift.

casino manager
     the mother of all pit critters [and usually the owner's son. -- Blair
     Houghton]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section L: Location of Casinos
Page last modified: 12-28-94

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L1 What are the phone numbers for hotels/casinos in Las Vegas?
A:L1 (Eric Vincent, Jim Piercy, Blair Houghton, John Schwab, Bryan Richhart)

Call the 800 Information service at 1-800-555-1212 and ask them for the number
for that hotel, giving the city (AC, Vegas, Reno, etc.) If the facility has no
WATS line, the answer is to dial long-distance information (which is _free_)
for Las Vegas at 1-702-555-1212 or AC at 1-609-555-1212 and ask them.

The following is a list of toll-free numbers for the hotels/casinos in Las
Vegas. The source is "Tourguide Magazine" of May 3, 1991. This is a weekly
tourist publication in LV. (Updated Sept. 20, 1993 to match "The Unofficial
Guide to Las Vegas")

  Aladdin             (800) 634-3424   The Nevada Palace       (800) 634-6283
  Alexis Park         (800) 582-2228   O'Sheas Casino          (702) 792-0777
  Arizona Charlie's   (800) 342-2695   Paddlewheel             (800) 782-2600
  Bally's Resort      (800) 634-3434   Palace Station          (800) 634-3101
  Barbary Coast       (800) 634-6755   Park Hotel                ( CLOSED )
  Binion's Horseshoe  (800) 237-6537   Quality Inn             (800) 634-6617
  Bourbon Street      (800) 634-6956   Ramada Las Vegas        (800) 634-6599
  Caesars Palace      (800) 634-6661   Ramada Suites-St. Trop. (800) 666-5400
  California Hotel    (800) 634-6255   Rio Suite Hotel/Casino  (800) 888-1808
  Circus Circus       (800) 634-3450   Riviera Hotel           (800) 634-6753
  Continental Hotel   (800) 634-6641   Royal Hotel & Casino    (800) 634-6118
  Desert Inn          (800) 634-6906   Sahara Hotel            (800) 634-6666
  Dunes Hotel           ( CLOSED )     Sam's Town              (800) 634-6371
  El Cortez           (800) 634-6703   Sands Hotel             (800) 634-6901
  El Rancho             ( CLOSED )     Santa Fe                (800) 872-6823
  Excalibur           (800) 937-7777   Showboat Hotel          (800) 826-2800
  Fitzgerald's        (800) 274-5825   Silver City             (702) 732-4152
  Flamingo Hilton     (800) 732-2111   Slots-A-Fun             (702) 734-0410
  Four Queens         (800) 634-6045   Stardust Hotel          (800) 634-6757
  Fremont Hotel       (800) 634-6182   Townhall/Vagabond       (800) 634-6541
  Frontier Hotel      (800) 634-6966   Tropicana               (800) 468-9494
  Gold Coast          (800) 331-5334   Vacation Village        (800) 658-5000
  Gold Spike          (800) 634-6703   Plaza                   (800) 634-6575
  Golden Gate         (800) 426-0521   Vegas World             (800) 634-6277
  Golden Nugget       (800) 634-3454   Western Hotel           (800) 634-6703
  Hacienda Hotel      (800) 634-6713   Westward Ho             (800) 634-6803
  Harrah's Casino     (800) 634-6765   Colorado Belle          (800) 458-9500
  Hotel Nevada        (800) 637-5777   Edgewater Hotel         (800) 67-RIVER
  Hotel San Remo      (800) 522-7366   Flamingo Hilton         (800) HILTONS
  Imperial Palace     (800) 634-6441   Golden Nugget           (800) 237-1739
  Lady Luck           (800) 523-9582   Harrah's                (800) 447-8700
  Las Vegas Club      (800) 634-6532   Pioneer                 (800) 634-3469
  Las Vegas Hilton    (800) 732-7117   Ramada Express          (800) 2-RAMADA
  Mardi Gras Inn      (800) 634-6501   Regency Casino          (800) 551-1950
  Maxim Hotel         (800) 634-6987   Riverside Resort        (800) 227-3849
  Mirage              (800) 627-6667   Sam's Town Gold River   (800) 835-7903
  Luxor               (800) 288-1000   MGM                     (800) 929-1111
  Treasure Island     (800) 944-7444

[ The following is a list of toll-free numbers for the hotels/casinos in
Atlantic City. -- John Schwab]

  Bally's Grand          (800) 257-8677    Sands             (800) 257-8580
  Bally's Park Place     (800) 225-5977    Showboat          (800) 621-0200
  Caesars Atlantic City  (800) 257-8555    Tropicana         (800) 257-6227
  Claridge               (800) 257-7676    Trump Castle      (800) 441-5551
  Harrah's Marina        (800) 242-7724    Trump Plaza       (800) 441-0909
  Resorts International  (800) 438-7424    Trump Taj Mahal   (800) 825-8786

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L2 Where is my favorite Las Vegas casino? (MAP)
A:L2 (Yui-Bin Chen)

Maps

I. Las Vegas Map (Not to scale)

                                                //         /       //
                                              I-15        /     LV Blvd
                         |                    //         /       //
                         |                   //         /       //
       N       ====(95)=============================================(515)=====
                         |                 //         /   /   //
       |                 |                //         /---/---//-Steward-Ave
       |                 R               //         / See   //
     --+--               a              //         /Downtown/--Ogden-Ave
       |                 n             //         /   for //
       |                 c            //         /  Details
                         h           //         /---/---//----Fremont-St
              |          o          ||         /   /   //
              |          |          ||        /   /   //
              |          D          ||       /   /   //
              |          r          ||      M   /   //
Charleston-Blvd----------+----------||------a------//---------------
              |          |          ||      i     //
              |          |         //       n    //
              V          |        //        |   //
              a          |       //         S  //
              l          |      //          t //
              l          |     //           |//
              e          |    //          VW//
Sahara-Ave----y--------------//------------//-----------------------
              |       PS    //            //Sa|
              V            //            //   |-Karen-Ave
              i           //    Circus^2//Riv |LVH        VW  Vegas World
              e          //   SlotsAFun//     |           Sa  Sahara
              w        I-15           //SC    |           PS  Palace Station
              |        //            //       |           LVC Las Vegas Hilton
              B       //    Stardust//-C-Ctr--|Las Vegas  Riv Riviera
              l      //            //         |Convention SC  Silver City
              v     ||            //          |Center
              d     ||   Frontier//`----------+---------
              |     ||          //            |
              |     ||         //DesertInn    P
              |     ||        //              a
Spring-Mountain-Rd--||-- FSM ||               r          FSM Fashion Show Mall
              |     ||  \____||               a          BM  Boulevard Mall
              |     ||       ||\              d     BM
              |     ||       || `---Sands-Ave-i---------
              |     ||     TI||Sands          s
              |     ||       ||               e           TI Treasure Island
              |     || Mirage||               |           BC Barbary Coast
              |     ||       ||Harrah's       R           GC Gold Coast
              |     ||       ||Imperial       d
              |     ||Caesars||Flamingo       |
           GC |Rio  ||       ||BC      Maxim  |
Flamingo-Rd---------||-------||---------------+---------
                    ||       ||Bally's        |Continental
                    ||       ||               |
                    ||       ||               |
                    ||       ||Aladdin        |      UNLV
                    ||       ||----------Harmon-Ave-.
                   I-15      ||               |     |
                    ||       ||               |     `---
                    ||       ||               |
                    ||       ||               |
                    ||       ||MGMGrand       |
Tropicana-Ave-------||-------||---------------+---------
            Howard  ||    Exc||Tropicana      |
                    ||       ||               |
                    ||       ||                           Exc Excalibur
                    ||  Luxor||                           Ha  Hacienda
                    ||       ||
                    ||       ||
                    ||     Ha||
                    ||       ||
                    ||       ||
                    ||       ||
                    ||       ||        McCarran
                    ||     Strip    International
                    ||    (LV Bl)      Airport
                    ||       ||

                        Vacation
                        Village

II. Downtown Las Vegas map (not to scale)

                  I-15      Main St    Casino Ctr   4th St   LV Blvd
                   //         /           /           /     //
      N           //         /           /           /     //
                 //         /-----------/-----------/-----//-Steward-Ave
      |         //         /     /     /     /     /     //
      |        //         /     /     /     /     /     //
    --+--     //         /Cal  /     /     / Lady/  GS //
      |      //         /-----/-----/-----/-----/-----//-------Ogden-Ave
      |     //         /     /     /     /     /     //
           //         /     /     /     /     /     //
          //         /     /     /     /     /     //
         //         /     /     /     /     /     // ElCortez
        //         / LVC / HS  / Fre /     /     //
       //   Jackie/-----/-----/-----/-----/-----//------------Fremont-St
      //         /GG PC/  GN /  4Q / Fitz/     //
     ||         /     /     /     /     /     //
     ||        /HN   /     /     /     /     //
     ||       /-----/   RV/-----/-----/-----//
     ||      /     /     /     /     /     //
-----||------|----------------------------//-------------Charleston-Blvd
     ||      |  1st St      3rd St       //
     ||      |                          //
    I-15   Main St                   LV Blvd

     4Q     Four Queens
     Cal    California Hotel
     Fitz   Fitzgeralds
     Fre    Fremont
     GG     Golden Gate
     GN     Golden Nugget
     GS     Gold Spike
     HN     Hotel Nevada
     HS     Binion's Horseshoe
     Jackie Jackie Gaughan's Plaza
     Lady   Lady Luck
     LVC    Las Vegas Club
     PC     Pioneer Club
     RV     Rainbow Vegas

Directory

(see FAQ L1 for phone numbers of casinos)

LOCAL PHONE NUMBERS (*NOT* toll-free numbers):

  Boulevard Mall                1-702-735-8268
  Convention Center             1-702-733-2323
  Fashion Show Mall             1-702-369-8382
  Forum Shops at Caesars        1-702-893-4800
  McCarran Airport              1-702-261-5743
  Meadows Mall                  1-702-878-4849
  Mirage Golf Club              1-702-369-7111
  Pioneer Club                  1-702-386-5000
  Silver City                   1-702-732-4152
  Slots-A-Fun                   1-702-734-0410
  Thomas & Mack Center          1-702-739-3900
  Transportation Center         1-702-799-6025

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L3 What are some cheap places to stay in Vegas?
A:L3 (Ron Birnbaum)

In response to those looking for nice but inexpensive accommodations in Vegas,
I can recommend two places:

Downtown:
The Ogden House - Fremont Street
     I don't have their number, but some friends stayed there in June for $18
     per night, and found it clean and comfortable. Their phone number is (702)
     385-5200.

Strip:
King Alburt Motel, 185 Albert Ave. (off Kovel, behind the Maxim)
     It's behind the Flamingo Hilton/Imperial Palace/Barbary Coast area. Every
     unit is furnished with a kitchen, tv, and private bath, with simple but
     clean furnishings. Their location is ideal, and they quoted me day rates
     of $25/wk $40/wkend per night for a single. And these prices were for
     March,('92) - usually a busy and high priced season. And you can do even
     better than these rates for a weekly rental. They are happy to negotiate!
     Their phone number is (800)-553-7753 or (702) 732- 1555

     Caveat Emptor: Another rec.gambler says to avoid this place, it is a dump.

Call the Las Vegas Tourism Bureau for details of other low-cost area lodging.
They have an toll-free number - 1-800-522-9555. Woops - I just called it and
they only handle casinos.

But these 800 numbers DO handle the smaller places as well. I called the LV
Chamber of Commerce for these numbers, and they had even more than these:

800 - 548-2008
800 - 345-7177

Through the 7177 number, I arranged a room in the beautiful new tower at the
Stardust for much lower than what the hotel quoted me directly, also at a lower
rate than the other 800 numbers could offer (32/wk 40/wkend). They are a room
'wholesaler' and seem to be the best place to make reservations through. The
new tower at the Stardust is supposed to be ****1/2, according to Julie - the
agent I spoke with. She also asked for a high floor which she said have
spectacular views of the entire strip.

They know all the deals in town! Good luck, hotel bargain hunters!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L4 What are some good places to play/stay in Reno?
A:L4 (Mike Northam)

[Note: This kind of information tends to become outdated quickly, so "your
mileage may vary"]

Well, this is just IMHO, of course. For cheap rooms: Circus Circus,
Fitzgerald's downtown. If you're going to be gambling something more than
nickels ($5 bets), you might call a place like the Flamingo Hilton and get a
credit application. Then you'll qualify for the "gambler's rate", which will
usually be about half price. You've gotta gamble for at least four hours per
day to get this, in most casinos. The best rooms are at Harrah's, but they have
standard northern Nevada rules. (If you're a gambler, check with their VIP
services to see if they have any special deals going. They often have special
packages if you buy-in for $1200, or some such.)

Best gambling for BJ: Flamingo Hilton (mostly double deck), Clarion, CalNeva
(Top Deck only), Reno Hilton (mostly double deck) (roughly in that order).
Everyplace else runs northern Nevada rules, I think.

Craps: most every place has double odds. You can play for 25 cents at the
Palomino (?) in Sparks and at one of the dives in downtown (Nevada Club?--can't
remember).

[The Union Plaza and it's 25c, 10x-odds Craps tables are one of the best and
most consistent pure gambling deals in Vegas. -- Blair Houghton]

Shows: well, my favorite is the planetarium at the University of Nevada :-).
Reno is not a big show town, but Harrah's usually has some country western star
and sometimes a decent cabaret act. The Flamingo Hilton has a comedy club and
usually a pretty good lounge act (which you can watch while you play BJ, which
is fun). Reno Hilton has a big stage show. The big headliners usually are found
at Tahoe, not Reno.

Restaurants: I've always liked the Presidential Car (I think in Harold's--I
never can remember). A romantic (and expensive) meal can be had at sunset at
the Top of the Hilton. Several people have mentioned a good Italian restaurant
at the El Dorado, but I haven't tried it myself. Harrah's has a pretty good $5
or so buffet, but their other restaurants are only so-so. Reno Hilton has a
nice steak house. If you like screaming kids with your meals, check out Circus
Circus (though I haven't been there for years, so maybe things have changed?).

Since you've never been to Reno before, I should mention that you can easily
walk to all the downtown casinos. There's a shuttle bus from downtown to Reno
Hilton (the closest to the airport--we traditionally stop in there on our way
out of town for a few hours). There's also a group of casinos in Sparks
(centered around John Ascuaga's Nugget). If you have a car, the Peppermill
(popular with the yuppie crowd) and the Clarion (Reno's newest casino, and
quite nice) are out on south Virginia St.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L5 Where is Elko Nevada?
A:L5 (Mike Northam, Steve Jacobs)

[NOTE: Elko is about 120 miles west of the Utah/Nevada border. --SRJ]

Casino Express (800) 258-8800 or (800) 654-0888 in Canada, owned by the people
who run the Elko Red Lion Inn, runs numerous junkets to Elko, NV. They own two
Boeing 737 aircraft, and charter several others on weekends. They fly from
several western cities (Seattle, Bellingham, Spokane, Portland, Eugene, Salem,
San Jose, Fresno, Modesto, Santa Maria, Ontario, Denver, Salt Lake City, etc.)
and have multiple-day junkets from Canadian and midwest cities (Minneapolis,
Mason City, etc.)

The casino has BJ, single and double deck, Las Vegas rules (H17, DAT) $5
minimum for single deck. Penetration varies with the dealer, so there
apparently isn't a house rule. There is no heat whatsoever, so 10:1 spreads are
no problem. During the 'gambling frenzy' of the last few moments before the
airport bus departs, *massive* spreads are possible--I've gone from $5 to $200
(40:1) no problem. All the tables are *always* full, so two rounds of seven is
all you'll see on the single deck. There's also craps, roulette, and a small
sports book. Keno for the truly adventuresome :-).

From Portland, the junket cost is $49 for a 12-hour turnaround flight [these
are $19 from Salt Lake, so you're price may vary], you have to show $350 in
cash to board the flight. Since it's a charter flight, there is a nice party
atmosphere on board the plane. Your play is rated, and presumably, if you don't
gamble enough, you might be barred from a future flight, though this hasn't
been a problem for any of my friends.

Elko also has a poker room, which now opens at 10:00 AM (they used to open at 5
pm). They play 7-stud ($2-$6) and Texas Hold'em ($4-$10). These can be great
games if there are several junket people (junkies?) at the table. You can also
fleece the locals if you catch them off guard, since they have great difficulty
believing that anyone who flies to Elko could know anything about poker. [Last
time I was in Elko, I was surprised to learn that the locals now mostly avoid
the game. Apparently they've taken a beating from the junketeers -- SRJ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L6 Where is Foxwoods?
A:L6 (Dave Tahajian, Susann Viafora)

Foxwoods is located within an Indian reservation in Ledyard, Conn. It is
located approx. 15 miles SW of the Rhode Island/Conn border, 15 miles NW of
Mystic Conn, 40 miles South of Worcester Mass, and 40 miles NE of Hartford
Conn. Foxwoods is located directly on Rt. 2, almost in the middle of I395 and
I95 (which run in parallel). It's an 1.5 hour ride from Boston, 1+ hour ride
from Hartford or Providence, and 2.5 hour ride from NYC (all approximations).
[Foxwoods is at the intersection of Routes 2 and 214 -- Dave Everett]

Foxwoods is *not* your run of the mill Indian casino, in fact you would have a
hard time finding any Indians at all! It's huge, very clean and well run and
very professional. Many of the managers and floormen come from LV or AC. I
would compare it to any other nice casino in AC or LV. You may be apprehensive
as you drive though the miles of corn fields when getting there, but this soon
disappears as soon as you walk though the doors. They have on site ATM machines
(which gives out nice new $100 bills!), credit card cash advance machines, and
will even setup a credit line for you (call ahead for this).

Two Trees Inn has approximately 280 guest rooms. Rates range from $100 to $150
for a standard room, $125 to $175 for a one-bedroom suite, depending on the
time of year. Summer is the tourist season in southeastern Connecticut and
rates are higher then. Two Trees provides a free 24 hour shuttle.

Foxwoods Resort Hotel offers 312 guest rooms and suites, with access to a
gorgeous health spa and pool. Rates run from $135 to $200 for a standard room
to $200-$275 for a one-bedroom suite, again with the higher rates during the
summer season.

Rooms at both hotels are often booked weeks in advance. For reservations and
more information call 1-800-FOXWOOD.

Foxwoods uses a comp system where you are given a credit card (called a "Wampum
card") which you give to the floorperson when you begin a session. You gain
"Wampum points" based on your avg. bet, the game you are playing, and the
amount of time you play. These points can be used at any of the casino's
restaurants, shops, and the hotels, where 1 point = $1. So if you have 49
points, you can stay at the Two Trees one weekday for free! You can get your
"Wampum Card" for free at the promotions booth (must show picture ID).

Wampum points are given for any game, including poker. Examples are:

  1. You play BJ, your avg bet is $10 and you use basic strategy, you will earn
     10 points per hour play.

  2. In 1-5/6-12 7stud or 3-6/6-12 holdem or 5-10 omaha, you'll get 1/2 point
     per hour (pot rake but no time charge)

  3. In 10-20 7stud or holdem, you get 1 point per hour (no rake but $10/hour
     time charge).

Note that in poker, you must "sign out" when you leave the game, otherwise your
points will be forfeited.

There are really two casinos, the "original one" located at the main entrance
near the bingo hall, and the "new one" located below the main hotel. You can
tell the difference by the colors, the new one uses a purple color scheme, and
the original one uses aqua. The poker room is located downstairs near the main
entrance of the original casino, under the waterfall.

Foxwoods has many restaurants on site, including an all you can eat buffet, a
grill, Chinese, Italian, and steak rooms, plus a couple of self service
snack-bars for sandwiches and pizza slices. The poker room offers table service
for players, and you can get it comped too (via your Wampum card)!

Most people get to Foxwoods via car or charter buses. There is no major airport
in the immediate area, and no trains which go directly to Ledyard. The closest
train service goes to nearby Mystic, which is a 20 minute drive away (taxi cost
$20). Nearest major airport is in T.F Green in Warwick, RI which is 1 hour
drive away. There is also an airport in Providence Rhode Island which is about
an hour from Foxwoods.

There are several other hotels in nearby Mystic which offer free shuttle
service to Foxwoods. There are two valet parking services, one at the main
casino entrance and one at the main hotel entrance. Also lots of free self
parking. If the lots are full, try parking at the Two Trees Inn or one of the
auxiliary lots located on Rt. 2 and take the free shuttle to the casino. My
favorite place to park is in the garage under the main hotel, just take the
elevator up to the casino!

Foxwoods offers almost all casino games, plus a 50+ table poker room. They also
have slots, a horse book, keno, and a massive bingo room which holds major
events approx every month.

BJ conditions are multi deck shoe (6 or 8), ~ 70% penetration, S17, DOA, DAS,
no resplit Aces, and some tables offer O/U and "super 7s" side bets. Also all
"back line" betting where up to 2 others can bet on one hand, and the person
sitting makes the decisions. The combined bet of all players cannot exceed the
maximum.

No heat has been reported of, and there are no special rules for late entry
into the shoe in progress. Minimums are $5 if not busy, $10-$15 otherwise.
There are always two $2 tables open, but these have a long wait.

As of July '95, Southeast Area Transit is offering shuttle bus service between
Foxwoods and the Amtrak station in New London, Conn. The shuttle service
operates daily, with eight buses Monday through Saturday and six buses on
Sunday. The shuttle costs $2 each way and coincides with the arrival times of
both north- and south-bound trains. Call (203) 886-2631 for schedule
information.

Cross Sound Ferry has also just begun a great new service between New London
and Orient Point, Long Island. A high-speed boat called the Sea Jet (that does
NOT carry vehicles, sorry) is cutting the crossing time to 35 minutes. The
round-trip fare is $20, and Foxwoods is offering food and gaming coupons worth
$25. Foxwoods also offers a free shuttle service to and from the casino. For
boat reservations contact Cross Sound Ferry at (203) 443-5281.

The poker room features 7stud, holdem and omaha. Limits are:

     7stud hi: 1-5, 3-6, 6-12, 10-20, 15-30, 20-40, 30-60, 50-100*
     7stud hi/lo 8 qualify: 15-30*, 20-40*
     holdem: 3-6, 6-12, 10-20, 15-30*, 20-40*, 30-60*
     omaha hi/lo 8 qualify: 5-10, 10-20*

     * these usually are run on busy weekends/holidays.

There is also a tournament every Wednesday night which switches between 7stud
and holdem on alternative weeks. Buy in is $25 plus $10 fee, no re-buys. Top 8
players get $$$.

I don't know much about the craps game, except the min is $10 if not busy,
$15-$25 otherwise. Same goes for Roulette.

For even more info, call them at 800-PLAYBIG.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q:L7 Where is Turning Stone?
A:L7 (Dave "4" Everett)

The Turning Stone Casino is an enterprise of the Oneida Indian Nation of New
York, and is located just a fraction of a mile off I-90 in Verona, NY (exit 33
of the NY State Thruway).

There is six-deck blackjack, and single-deck blackjack. As of this writing
(9/94) the rules are:

     S17
     Double any 2 first cards except a point count of 21
     Split any pair
     Split aces get only one card each
     Other pairs may be resplit up to four hands
     Double after split (EXCEPT on single deck games, no double after split)

     Lowest table minimum was $5, even on single-deck BJ!

They also have craps (double odds), roulette, mini-baccarat, red dog, money
wheel, fruit wheel, keno, caribbean stud, and pai gow poker.

They have a coffee shop with very reasonable prices open 0000 to 1600, and in
the same room, a dinner buffet for $14 open 1600 to ????. They also have a
"cafe'" with counter service only, open most of the time (perhaps all).

Comps are reasonably easy. Four hours of $10 BJ got this writer brunch at the
coffee shop, and another four hours earned a dinner buffet. Your mileage may
vary.

Lodging is available nearby. If you want fancy lodging, stay in Syracuse or
Utica, depending upon whether you're travelling from the east or the west.

Turning Stone's telephone number is 315-361-7711.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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